tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post7211558761959642371..comments2023-12-18T23:20:31.042-06:00Comments on Scriblerus Club: Taking Stock of Star Wars: A Question of CanonPrisonerNumber6http://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-33577943327832703152018-11-11T20:15:33.623-06:002018-11-11T20:15:33.623-06:00I always loved 'em, personally. Loved 'em...I always loved 'em, personally. Loved 'em in 1983, love 'em in 2018.Bryant Burnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189356171455609865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-81009304383621938352018-11-11T19:26:44.595-06:002018-11-11T19:26:44.595-06:00Well, I won't make the same mistake and call h...Well, I won't make the same mistake and call her story the Great Unsung Tragedy of Star Wars, yet it probably is a key bit of background info to keep in mind next to you watch any of the OT.<br /><br />That said, even I have to admit I don't mind ROTJ as much as others. To me it's just enjoyable, and, for the record, I have literally no opinion on Ewoks one way or the other. I never felt they detracted, or got in the way, and they've remained a non-issue for me to this day.<br /><br />ChrisC.PrisonerNumber6https://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-53329619744723381372018-11-11T19:07:23.912-06:002018-11-11T19:07:23.912-06:00Right now I'm leaning more toward the wait and...Right now I'm leaning more toward the wait and see, though I have to admit, after Episode 8, I'm pretty much convinced Disney does not know how to handle a property like Star Wars.<br /><br />I'd like to be convinced otherwise, the trouble I just don't how you course correct from something like this. On the off chance that it is a success, the fact that it could (potentially) be because of retconning "TLJ" would serve as an unfortunate acknowledgement by the company that a mistake has been made, and the 8th film's reputation is going to just suffer even more. It seems like one of those damned if they do or don't situations to me right now.<br /><br />ChrisCPrisonerNumber6https://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-7000828071216574142018-11-11T18:33:09.443-06:002018-11-11T18:33:09.443-06:00"I'll have to admit there were a lot of o..."I'll have to admit there were a lot of others that I felt it best not to go with because there was just too much of an ideological vibe from a lot of them that I just want to avoid." -- Yeah, for sure. There's a ton of that out there. Patently misogynistic, patently racist, etc. And, of course, that's all a shame.<br /><br />It's also a shame that, as you suggest, both it and the counter-reaction against it make it difficult to express one's own perfectly innocuous dislike for the movie without getting labeled a woman-hating race-baiter. On that, I hear you loud and clear. I've had the same problems vocally criticizing "Star Trek: Discovery." Say you don't like the fact that they made the main character Spock's sister and you are assumed to be something you're not. Man, I'm all for the lead of that show being a black woman; I like the actress. Did she have to be Spock's sister?!? That's all I'm sayin'.<br /><br />"While I can't say for certain,, I do wonder if all the toxic guardianship talk effected the final product. Just a thought, and I'll have to give it more." -- It probably did in some ways, and will almost certainly affect it going forward even more. How could it not?<br /><br />"Far as I'm concerned, all this is just a way of trying to understand that reaction while possibly trying to clarify a few things." -- Blogging is very, very good for that. So I've found, at least.<br /><br />"I decided not to hang around after that, so I don't know much more, though I can feel safe calling it not good, and it doesn't really deserve to be called canon." -- I agree. I'm probably still going to watch the new season, though, because I am a sucker.<br /><br />Out of curiosity: what are your plans for Episode IX? Have they lost you, or will you grit your teeth and give it a shot?Bryant Burnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189356171455609865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-42562146639891526612018-11-11T09:01:59.322-06:002018-11-11T09:01:59.322-06:00p.s. I definitely agree about Marcia Lucas. p.s. I definitely agree about Marcia Lucas. B McMolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706178983936146307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-5794458380604037622018-11-11T09:01:10.348-06:002018-11-11T09:01:10.348-06:00Interesting remarks, comments, and discussion! I c...Interesting remarks, comments, and discussion! I can't really offer much here, but I enjoyed reading it.<br /><br />As with Trek, I think canon comes down to whomever's paying the bills, really, regardless of fan reaction. It's like who owns the copyright to something in dispute - well, who paid for it? The court will always go in that direction.<br /><br />As for head-canon/ what-fans-say, that's a whole different discussion. <br /><br />I have more experience with Trek, here, than I do with SW, but I've always been amused at those Trek fans that get uber-serious about canon. Dude(s), the canon didn't even survive TOS. Come on now. It's always going to be a fluid concept; such is the nature of fictional 'verses and why they will always need ("need") a reboot. B McMolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02706178983936146307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-10623670007051792472018-11-11T08:54:29.207-06:002018-11-11T08:54:29.207-06:00P.S.
As regards "STD", as they say, &qu...P.S.<br /><br />As regards "STD", as they say, "forewarned is forearmed". I came away disliking what I saw, yet I was also sorta laughing at just how ridiculous it all was (what "sister"?). I decided not to hang around after that, so I don't know much more, though I can feel safe calling it not good, and it doesn't really deserve to be called canon.<br /><br />ChrisCPrisonerNumber6https://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-60140614874891470742018-11-11T08:49:56.063-06:002018-11-11T08:49:56.063-06:00There's an interesting tidbit related to the i...There's an interesting tidbit related to the idea "that a lot of the people attacking the movie aren't STAR WARS fans". While I have posted links to a few critics who seem genuine (best I can tell), I'll have to admit there were a lot of others that I felt it best not to go with because there was just too much of an ideological vibe from a lot of them that I just want to avoid.<br /><br />One in particular, I saw, but never watched, was about how women were somehow the problem with the new series. Yeah, it has gotten that bad for some reason, and it's part of why I said I was worried about walking into a minefield. If watching those reviews in any way influenced my word choice for some sentences, then WOW, I really owe anyone who tunes in an apology up front.<br /><br />The interesting bit is those reviews I didn't care to link might have done at least one thing. don't know where I'd say Episodes 7 and 8 fit in here, yet I do wonder how much today's toxic culture is either reflected in, or influenced "TLJ". While I can't say for certain,, I do wonder if all the toxic guardianship talk effected the final product. Just a thought, and I'll have to give it more. <br /><br />Either way, when it comes to canon, I'd hope to avoid those same pitfalls (he wrote, knowing he'd probably blow it without even trying, anyway).<br /><br />All I know is when I came away from the film, I read you're review of "Stark Trek: Discovery" and thought, for this whole thing, just switch out all the Federation characters for those in the "SW" galaxy as portrayed in "TFA" and "TLJ", and you'd pretty much have my thoughts on the matter. Far as I'm concerned, all this is just a way of trying to understand that reaction while possibly trying to clarify a few things. <br /><br />In terms of how I see the "SW" canon, I'm still putting some finishing touches on this. I plan on culminating it all with a discussion of "Dark Empire", and then just summing up. A short version goes as follows. Prequel trilogy doesn't work for me, though it's there if anyone wants it. The EU I like, though I think you can only go so far before knowing when you need to definitively write: The End.<br /><br />Now I just gotta see how I can expand that without running over long (hint: I probably can't accomplish that much, I'm afraid).<br /><br />ChrisC<br />PrisonerNumber6https://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-80743814014052516812018-11-11T05:02:44.098-06:002018-11-11T05:02:44.098-06:00I always enjoy a discussion of what does and/or do...I always enjoy a discussion of what does and/or does not constitute canon. My default setting on the issue of "Star Wars" canon is that it's the movies, and nothing else. <br /><br />But it's obviously a much thornier issue than that. The truth is, there is no one canon. Each fan assembles their own. Mine is bifurcated (if not trifurcated). It mostly consists only of the movies, but I do have a great fondness for some of the EU material I read back in the day. So I think if you pressed me, what I'd say is that I take the movies as one canon (THE canon, if you will), but with another that contains both movies and some novels/comics (and maybe tv shows, although I mostly haven't seen those), none of which is actually required to fit together into a coherent whole.<br /><br />This is insanity, of course. But it's fun insanity that allows me to enjoy the Disney era without giving s**t one about whether it invalidates the EU or not. (My feeling on that: it doesn't. It's right there on the shelf. You can literally point to it, or even read it. It's gone nowhere, and anyways, it never counted as canon in the first place...<br /><br />...from a certain point of view.)Bryant Burnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189356171455609865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-39921586383622234392018-11-11T04:55:44.041-06:002018-11-11T04:55:44.041-06:00That's a fair reaction. Not everyone is going...That's a fair reaction. Not everyone is going to like everything. If a movie doesn't work for you, it doesn't; that's how it is sometimes. <br /><br />In case it's not self-evident, let me state outright: I've got no problem with someone disliking the movie. I might raise a verbal eyebrow at it -- or the internet-comment equivalent of that -- but ultimately that's YO bidness, not mine. I'm enjoying reading your thoughts on the whole thing, even when I disagree with them.<br /><br />That said, I'd like to offer some food for thought. <br /><br />The reactions to this movie were indeed divisive, to say the least. Or so it is said. I don't believe it, personally.<br /><br />I mention it because I've got experience which makes me think so. I manage a movie theatre, and I talked to, I think, four people (two groups of two) who disliked the movie. Four. By no means is that a scientific result; but when a movie is widely disliked, I hear people talking about it on their way out. I heard almost none of it with this movie.<br /><br />My theory is that a lot of the people attacking the movie -- and I'm not pointing a finger at you, by the way -- aren't fans of Star Wars. They're fans of being Star Wars fans. They almost certainly came to this by way of BEING Star Wars fans, but I think that long since gave way to placing the fandom itself above all else. And for whatever reason, their preferred method of being fans is now to complain about various aspects of it. This creates a sense of community to which they become attached, and so the opinions/beliefs which drive that process become their default setting. Faster than lickety-split, you've got an echo chamber on your hands, with what amounts to a very small number of people doing the internet equivalent of hollering through a bullhorn. <br /><br />Meanwhile, all the people who liked the movie -- and don't kid yourself, this number VASTLY outpaces the ones who don't -- mostly just shrug at it and move on, if they notice it at all. A few of the more argumentative types (like me!) might occasionally engage someone on the subject, but mostly we feel like it's not worth the effort unless the someone we're engaging with is a known quantity with whom an actual conversation can be had (like you!).<br /><br />You've got a hundred people with bullhorns hollering about how Canto Bight sucks, and a thousand people shrugging about it and going on with their lives. Of those thousand, maybe a handful take the time to holler back; but mostly, they'd rather opt out. So the bullhorn crowd seems way larger than the pro-TLJ crowd, but that's a perception, not an actuality.<br /><br />Again, this is not to demean anyone's distaste for the movie. I just distrust talking points, which is all most of these objections strike me as being.<br /><br />And in my gut, I feel it to be true that the anti-TLJ crowd is vastly smaller than it wants everyone else to think it is. The box office for Episode IX will almost certainly prove this. (Detractors will point to the weak performance of "Solo" as proof I'm wrong. I will assert that that movie was never going to do well because nobody -- literally nobody -- wanted to see anyone other than H. Ford play H. Solo. The fact that it did as well as it did is a miracle attributable to the fact that it's actually pretty good.)<br /><br />Anyways, that's my take on this stuff.Bryant Burnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189356171455609865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-25756458365830742432018-11-10T18:14:47.470-06:002018-11-10T18:14:47.470-06:00Apologies for the hyperbole. The thing is, I'...Apologies for the hyperbole. The thing is, I'm not sure I've ever seen reactions, or a film quite like this, really. The problem is there's very little I can find to compliment.<br /><br />ChrisC.PrisonerNumber6https://www.blogger.com/profile/03156430802462353459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3917612005522287441.post-41819307287560154312018-11-10T14:29:21.654-06:002018-11-10T14:29:21.654-06:00"one of the great cinematic debacles of Holly..."one of the great cinematic debacles of Hollywood history" -- Even if I agreed it was a debacle, I'd disagree it was among the most disastrous in Hollywood history.<br /><br />"I’m not just talking about Disney’s own Heaven’s Gate." -- The two films don't compare. One was a colossal financial failure, the other was a colossal financial success.<br /><br />"I’m also considering whether or not such a spectacularly bad film has any claim to validity, either as Canon, or as art." -- Crazy Fat Ethel II is a spectacularly bad film. Battlefield Earth is a spectacularly bad film. Neil Diamond's The Jazz Singer is a spectacularly bad film. <br /><br />The Last Jedi is, at worst, a bad film. I don't think it's even that, personally; but even if I did, I couldn't dive into the pools of hyperbole that so many of its detractors seem to be swimming in.Bryant Burnettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189356171455609865noreply@blogger.com